Bye-Bye Ben & Jerry's...Hello Blue Bell???

[LukeJ]

@3Sisters some people do deserve their tips, and means a lot to them due to their lowly pay. And you can always tell who are the sincere ones and not doing in because they have to, and these genuine people deserve their tips as far as I'm concerned.

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ Yes, that's one thing about being a chef you don't get, tips. It's so different when you tip because you want to, not because you feel like you have to. It's a nice gesture to do when you really appreciate someone. Some bar tenders and other crew members onboard almost expect a nice tip, but it's so nice to tip when you know the person isn't expecting it. It means so much more to that person! After tipping her I wanted to go out my way to tip all off the bathroom attendants. I'm sure not all would have the same reaction she had, but the appreciation she expressed spoke volumes about her.

[LukeJ]

It's because someone recognises the work she puts in and appreciates their efforts. I'm not saying waiters/waitresses don't deserve their tips, but it's more of a given thing about tipping in that profession. They don't even have to do their job well, and there will no doubt be a tip for them in return because we tend to tip for the overall food and experience. In the UK anyhow, not sure how it works in US. So a lot have had tips from me and they haven't even gone out of their way to deserve it. So when a cleaner for example gets a tip, it's not as common and means something to people. 

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ It's very true. I'm not sure why chefs aren't as appreciated! The chefs are the ones sweating, breaking their backs to provide you with delicious, safe food. The waiter just brings it out! The job of a chef is a very physically demanding job, and the hours are more than that of a server. The life of a server is less demanding. If you area the chef you have to go in early to prep all of the food. The waiter just shows up and is ready to roll! You often will tip for the food quality, and the chef/sous chefs should get a kickback for that. I think the US is more tip dominant. Gratuities are expected in many professions. Also, many professions expect good tips. It you give a mediocre tip you risk your food being tainted or bags being lost at the airport because you didn't tip enough. That's why, in the US, you have to tip well. 

[LukeJ]

@3Sisters as a former chef myself, I agree 100%. The hours we worked was relentless. I didn't see my family properly for years as I was constantly working. The tips really stuck in the back of my throat, because the attitude we got back was the waitering staff took the food to the customers with a smile. I'd smile too if I was having the tips. We ran ourselves into the ground, and the excuse we received a bigger salary was a complete lie as the amount of hours we actually did in comparison was so much more, and if we broke it down per hour, we got paid much less.

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ It's not fair, and you never see the wait staff working up a sweat in a hot kitchen and accidentally chopping their fingers while in such a rush. In order to be successful in the culinary world you have to be so competitive and resilient, making many sacrifices such as not seeing your family or eating normal (or any) meals during your shift. Many people don't understand that while everyone is eating hungry, the people that work in the kitchen can't eat! That's so true about the salary. It's a nonstop, around the clock job. Waiters and waitresses can almost make their own schedule, with much more flexibility and get paid more hourly. Also salary jobs are always taxed more than tips! 

[LukeJ]

I personally hate salary jobs. It's totally unfair. If I work 70 hours a week, then I want to get paid 70 hours. The old BS about being swings and roundabouts, that you earn the same wage when you do less hours that you should is a total lie. Management will not let you work less hours than is agreed because you are on salary. They will get everything they can put of you, and won't let a silly little thing like you needing a break get in their way. 

[Kendall James-Vargas]

@LukeJ Salary jobs are a toss up for me! It really depends on the the field of work. For instance, my husband has a salary job and really benefits from it, primarily due to the benefits he receives. He is able to work less than 40 hours a week (for the most part) with a very flexible style schedule. He can take much of his calls out and about and has some flexibility to travel while working remotely which is a huge perk. Since my husband travels with work, our children and I will often tag along, staying in nice hotels and enjoying those amenities if we can find reasonable flight tickets. Typically we backpack and fly with very cheap airlines in order to afford tagging along. In the restaurant industry the hours are rough. My mom just quit a job as a restaurant manager because the hours weren't sustainable. I don't think anyone with a salary job should be subject to over 60 hours a week. The hourly rate usually come out to be better than salary at that point. Like you mentioned, there are no such things of breaks when you are on salary. You work around the clock with no break because you don't get to clock in and out. 

[LukeJ]

You're right it is totally dependent on the field of work you're in. I know some people that are/were on salary, and if they worked over the agreed 40 hours, they still got a bonus for the extra hours. Unfortunately, life isn't always fair. In the hospitality industry, we just get rinsed and expect to just do as many hours as you possibly can and still get the same wage no matter what. Some places won't even give the chefs tips either. (Which we already covered in here)

[Kendall James-Vargas]

@LukeJ The bonuses are a huge perk on salaried positions! My husband also provides exceptions healthcare for our family alongside retirement benefit packages. He also gets stock options that have really benefited my family when we needed to pull out some cash for unexpected circumstances. Some salary jobs can provide a cushion on incentives including disability insurance, but if you are working in an industry that will run you to the ground all of those perks still aren't good enough. I wish the hospitality industry had better perks, but it's horrid hours with lots of physical labor involved. You must be very understanding of those in crew members onboard your cruises in the same line of work. The burn out is real!

[LukeJ]

It's fantastic id you have the sickness and healthcare covered in that as well. That's not only a perk but a life dependant in today's age. I got injured a few years back and was off work for 3 months because the doctors wouldn't allow me back due to safety. I didn't get a penny (dime?) for the whole time I was off. I rushed back early in order to get back into the swing of things and earn again, only for the restaurant to stab me in the back with no hours because it went quiet 

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ I totally see your reasoning to despise salary positions in your field. In this horrid situation where you were unable to work, your job didn't assist financially at all while you were out? That's awful! I'm assuming you were an hourly employee at this time, otherwise I would have expectations you would be covered by short-term disability insurance. The restaurant/food industry is cut throat. I'm not surprised they didn't hold your job for you. It's such a shame. Have you switched industries since? 

[LukeJ]

Yes I a green, it is very cut throat, you either fit into a place or you don't. Ive never really had that much of an issue in each kitchen I worked, as I got on with most people, but I have seen people come and go because they couldn't settle in with the ethics of the kitchen. I guess that's why most places struggle for consistency, because there are different chefs all the time. And I mean this in the nicest way, but if you notice that there a different chefs in a place constantly, it's mainly down to working conditions and being treated unfairly by management or owners.

[Kendall James-Vargas]

@LukeJ I'm sad to hear about your injury and how your workplace handled it so poorly. When things like that happen I find it so unjust. Were you able to get any government assistance during that timeframe? You certainly deserved it considering you got injured on the job! Different chefs all the time is a real thing because it's an unfair workplace. I don't find many restaurants consistent, and that's a shame. I will go back for a certain food item and it won't taste the same as the last time I enjoyed it so much! 

[LukeJ]

@Kendall James-Vargas I did get government assistance, but it was paid to the company that were supposed to pay me in my wage. I didn't receive it. So I began legal proceedings. And the hassle that I had to even try and receive what was owed to me made me ill. It was as if I was guilty of something. It was such a hard long ordeal, and that's what makes me mad about the law, particularly in the UK. It says one thing and then turns it on it's head, and everything then becomes a grey area rather than a simple black and white society we should live in. They cheated me, so they should pay me. Very simple. However, it was all, yes I can see what you're saying, but...., total nonsense so I just moved on and left it.

[Kendall James-Vargas]

@LukeJ That's so horrible! This story is getting me more and more frustrated. I can't imagine how you must have felt in the moment. I think I would feel overwhelmed. Taking legal action is not for the faint of heart. I happen to avoid it at all costs (because it does cost) and take my losses. Those wages were something you rightfully deserved and you shouldn't have had to fight for them! Honestly, it's too much of a hassle and it's too costly. The point is to receive the payment you earned but it often will end up costing more in legal fees than receiving what you should have. It's such a shame. I wish it wasn't so. What is so crazy to me about the restaurant business is that employees are treated this way (and I have experienced this first hand) and then a guest comes and slips and falls on the floor, suing for half a million dollars and wins. It just baffles me! How does that make sense? I don't think it does.

[LukeJ]

No it doesn't make any sense at all. It's very annoying when minority of people win, or listened to. It shouldn't be like that. However some restaurant owners or managers simply don't have the mind to run a successful business, and just like the idea of running a business to show off to their family and friends. Most are simply bizarre and the ideas they come up with are ridiculously pathetic. As a whole, staff do cover their basis when it comes to paperwork, safety records, cleanliness, and as you say, someone falls, (which people do these days), and the restaurant gets sued and win. For what reason, it was nothing that the restaurant had done for most of the time, sometimes it was the person's fault, wrong footwear, drunk, not concentrating, but it will always go towards the customers no matter what.

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ All workplaces can be pretty unfair. Unfortunately many family businesses are like this. It's unfair to the employees because you are either in with the clique or you are not. The means certain employees get unfair advantages. I prefer to work for a corporate office instead of a family-owned business unless I know the family extremely well. I did work for a family business and was part of the family. I saw unfair advantages first-hand. I received unfair advantages, but I was also responsible for lots of extra things with other employees dropped to ball. The customers are always taken care of, no matter what! If a guests complains about the food. They get a gift card to compensate to keep them quiet and to not complain. It's not fair. I wish hard working employees like yourself were appreciated in other ways, not just financially. Sometimes it's so much more than a financial incentive, but kindness goes a long way. Many employers aren't very kind, and that can make the workplace miserable! A good boss/manager makes a world of difference. 

[PaulB]

I don't see why tipping continues just in the hospitality industry. The reason first given was because of the low pay that waiters/waitresses were on, and the tips was an extra on top. However there are millions on lowly wages in all sectors across the globe and not given tips for their work. As @LukeJ mentioned, they don't even have to do a good job anymore and expect a tip. The amount of restaurants I've been in and completely ignored by staff because they are talking to one another or on their phones and I've had to go up to them on several occasions. They give off the vibe they don't want to be there, they haven't gone above and beyond but then scowl at you if you don't leave them anything.

[Kendall James-Vargas]

That's an interesting perspective. As someone who has always been a generous tipper and enjoys tipping, I never thought of a world without tipping! If all people were paid appropriately, tipping wouldn't be necessary. Performance wouldn't be based on a tip. I actually think this is an intriguing approach! 

[LukeJ]

@PaulBmy thoughts exactly there. I don't see why we should tip if the service isn't there. I realise different culture affects different people. The US are renowned for tipping, where in the UK people do tip, and more than welcome have over the years, however I don't see why we should if things go wrong. If service was poor or even mediocre, and the food took too long and was wrong etc, there is no way I'd leave a tip for that as it wouldn't mean anything. If someone did their job and did it well, then I'd be happy to leave them something. But then nobody leaves me a tip for doing my work.

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ If the service is poor, I still feel obligated to tip something, even if it's $1, just to prove a point. Sometimes I think the waitstaff will just assume you are cheap or a bad tipper if you tip zero. If you tip an extremely low amount, I find it makes more of a statement than tipping absolutely nothing. It's even hard for me to tip a low amount if I'm being honest because I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes people have a bad day, and I try to show grace, but some service is downright horrible. It's rare, but that's the only time I will tip less than 20%. I think tipping is a much bigger thing in the US than it is in European countries from what I understand. Is that true?

[LukeJ]

Yes, I know it is in the UK. There is no obligation to tip anything if we don't want to. I always was under the impression that Americans tip 20% anytime. Whenever I go to France, to work in the hospitality industry is a big deal. They look proud in what they do, and serve in a quick, organised manner.

[3Sisters]

@LukeJ As long as employees are getting paid enough, not having to tip does make sense. It keeps the workplace pretty fair. It could be possible the UK has better wages/salaries for its employees, and the US doesn't offer enough to make ends meet. A typical waiter in the US that heavily relies on tip at an average sit down restaurant will make $5.50 an hour plus tips, and these employees will heavily rely on their tips. In fact, if they don't get a tip, they could end up making less than the minimum wage, which is $7.25 per hour. Most places now pay at least $10 per hour, but it really should be more like $15 per hour. No one can live on such an income. The cost of living is just too high! Do you have to tip in France? I would assume the hospitality industry pays more there!

[Woody14]

22 hours ago, 3Sisters said:

 A typical waiter in the US that heavily relies on tip at an average sit down restaurant will make $5.50 an hour plus tips, and these employees will heavily rely on their tips. In fact, if they don't get a tip, they could end up making less than the minimum wage, which is $7.25 per hour. 

Firstly I am a Canadian so I apologies in advance but does not a minimum wage mean that is the lowest you can be paid? 

In Canada they have to pay you at minimum the minimum wage.   So a waiter in most cases minimum plus tips.     Now the tipping culture in Canada has changed a lot in the past 10 years and more an more are relying on that to take minimums to a livable wage but it has never been the case to actually bring you up to minimum wage.